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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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hello and welcome to the skeptic zone

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episode 334 the 15th in February 2015

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this is Joe alabaster here from the

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beautiful Blue Mountains in Australia

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filling in for Richard Saunders it's

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been busy this week updating the

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skeptics own website the new design is

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going live as this episode goes to air

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some go and have a look ww skeptics on

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TV coming up on this week's show Maynard

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spooky action this week Maynard chats

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with dr. Brad Mackay from embarrassing

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bodies down under who gave a talk at

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Sydney skeptics in the pub what is his

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take as a GP on some of the more popular

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forms of so-called alternative medicines

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we also find out what a group of

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pharmacists who are in the audience

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think of woo in chemist shops and Iran's

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gift gives his thoughts on the

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retirement of James Randi after that

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Richard chats to dr. Steve Roberts also

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known as dr. Bob of dr. Bob's trivia

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quiz and asks where have all the UFOs

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gone following that it's the popular

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segment awaken science from our iOS and

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finally it's evidence please with me my

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report this week includes something of a

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book review of stephanie messengers

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Melanie's marvelous measles well it's

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time for me to run downstairs and into

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my back garden as I live in a

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single-story house on a mountain perhaps

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I'll sit on the lawn and have a picnic

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while I'm doing that please enjoy the

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here's my not spooky action at the

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distance

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we just been listening to dr. Brad do

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his talk I had to call you Doogie Howser

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when I heard that you went to uni at 16

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I started University 116 yeah so is a

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very aged reference may not oh yeah i

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know because people know hun 33 people

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went oh and the other people went shut

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up they nod there was a lot of

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reflection and understanding from

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everyman's you look so you had fantastic

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marks in high schools that part of the

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reason and you had a real aptitude yeah

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yeah I studied very hard and I spent a

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lot of time in my bedroom looking at

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books from reading so much better than

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the books that I were looking at

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obviously I think look at dr. bad I've

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had people on Twitter already saying I

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had to interview because people were

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fascinated about what you were doing

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there you were giving us some case

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studies where people have offered

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alternative medicine to the regular

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medicine but frankly everything you put

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up on the screen I think could have been

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either fixed with a prescription of

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dexamphetamine or MDMA well it's

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depression md a bang I'm feeling bit

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sluggish to detect amphetamine I'm no

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doctor but you know there are a lot of

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vague symptoms that people have and

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people will struggle with low mood or

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with low energy levels or different skin

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conditions and so a lot of people are

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trying to find answers and they haven't

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found it in the regular medical circles

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so that will often look at other

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alternative therapies because they

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haven't got their answers from what

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they're wanting my principle is to

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listen to people and to understand

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really get to the bottom of what's going

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on and often will find a problem and be

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able to fix it so this is one of the

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respect I have for GPS is cuz you at the

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front line of this and one of the

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examples you gave was that you just come

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back from holidays women came in with

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thyroid issues ng asked you how

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thyroxine made what is the background to

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it and you've got at what six minutes 15

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minutes and you've got to give out this

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information and that's very difficult

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for you it's like you've got to be a

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walking instant encyclopedia yeah and as

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a GP your knowledge is very broad and so

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you need to know a lot about a whole lot

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of different things so one of my

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interest areas has really been

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alternative therapies and what is that

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and what's the quality of it what what

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are the studies behind it so I probably

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have more of an interest in it than

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other people and can give more of an

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opinion and when people ask me questions

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like how is the oxen made I'm they going

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oh crap I don't know so so if you're

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looking it up and researching then you

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can know the answers to it and then it

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gets stored but yeah that's sort of

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having that constant looking and reading

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and being up to date with it so the

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success rate do you have with weaning

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people off non evidence-based medicine I

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think it's very difficult I think of

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people are getting a benefit or a

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perceived benefit it's very difficult to

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tell them that they're not getting a

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benefit from it or that it's only

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placebo because they've got a belief or

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a faith in what's going on well they may

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be getting a mile benefit or it might

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work for them but not the next person as

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well and so it's quite a complex

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situation so I think it's worthwhile

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taking people at face value and saying

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okay well what's going on if you're

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trying this their energy you're feeling

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that it's got this benefit then let's

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try off it for a couple of weeks and see

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how you feel then we'll try back on it

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again let's try something different and

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tried to prove or disprove what's

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working what's not working through our

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listeners playing along at home could

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you give them just one of the examples

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that you throw up on the screen then

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just just tell us what it is and what

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you did is there one you like you'd like

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it to us now well my favorite is cupping

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which I thought was like spooning I

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thought gray it's like going to be a

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cuddling thing of it now no not at all

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so here's a lot of people find that

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they're not getting anywhere with their

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treatment if they've got low back pain

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or the upper thoracic back pain or

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whatever's going on if they've got a

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cold then people often offer to do

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cupping which is basically sticking cups

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to your skin and either using suction or

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heat to suck up your skin up into the

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cup or a large version of getting a

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nasty Hickey when you're 14 yeah so by

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getting a hickey on your back that is

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apparently beneficial and getting rid of

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colds getting rid of your fever I'm

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getting rid of toxins from your skin

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when if you're basically sucking on your

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skin you'll you'll get up like a mouth

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full of sweat

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if you're sucking on it directly if

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you've got a cup then you might get some

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sweat or you'll just be breaking blood

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vessels and creating a lot of bruising

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so and that's what I get horrified with

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when people have decorative bruising all

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over their back for not any benefit this

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is a little bit like a distraction like

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acupuncture is like the actual act of

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doing this will distract people from

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what symptoms they have as an issue well

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a lot of people talk about acupuncture

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or cupping or any other modality and

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think well if they're lying down and

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they can't move because they've got

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needles in them or they've got cups

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sucking their skin up on their back then

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they have to just lie there and not

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think about things and relax which a lot

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of people don't do these days so is it

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more that there's a benefit from

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meditating or that there's a benefit

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from lying there still and just

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quietening down for the day is that

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what's doing the benefit or is it

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because they're getting a whole lot of

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nikki's on the back look cupping you're

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getting close to bloodletting and you're

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getting close to leeches well sometimes

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you actually get bloodletting from

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cupping you can get blisters and you can

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get a serious love blood coming out you

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can get infections as well you get

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infections from acupuncture to the

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needles up being appropriately used so

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yeah there's a lot of dangers that can

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be had from from both treatments and as

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a GP you mentioned a case there where

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someone came in and they wanted to have

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their cortisol level in their blood

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measured is that something that a doctor

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would do when people come in and they

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want a specific test for some reason did

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you want to go into what they're all on

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about and everything because it could

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have a detrimental effect finding out

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that

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so um people will often come in and say

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that they have adrenal fatigue and

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inverted commas and they've been told

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that by the naturopath and so as GP ism

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as medicos it's hard to understand what

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that actually is because it's a little

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bit like strengthening the immune system

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it's a bit meaningless how do you

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measure that what's going on so they'll

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often be told by their naturopath to

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have a reading of their cortisol to see

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what's going on and so it's often very

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difficult because you can look at them

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and go yeah like I don't think you've

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got Cushing's disease which will be in

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excess of cortisol you may be stressed

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because it's a stress hormone so if we

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check your cortisol level and it's up

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what does that mean like does that mean

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that your stress I guess you don't

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always have a base level for that

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particular person either do um you often

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don't have a base level and you often

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need to repeat it a number of times to

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see if it's a true reading or not but

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again like you often have a variety of

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different symptoms that are there so

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with cushing's disease people are often

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like very overweight they've got very

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thin skin they've got a moon face

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because of that a lot of swelling around

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their cheeks at around their face and

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they've got like high blood pressure

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there's a whole range of different

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symptoms that they've got if they've got

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Cushing's disease and if they've got a

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high lot of cortisol that's going around

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the body and it's a really serious

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condition so um and if you've got the

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other way if you're not having enough

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cortisol then you end up having

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Addison's disease where again it's a

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very very important issue and there's a

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whole lot of endocrinology bill problems

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that go along with it that you need

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specialist treatment for with Addison's

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disease but it's also very very rare and

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usually these people would be feeling a

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lot worse than what they are coming and

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said that they're stressed or that

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they've got adrenal fatigue as a

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diagnosis because it's not a diagnose

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which is why you went to medical school

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because a single data point like your

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cortisol reading is not going to give

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you the entire story no not at all no

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way and

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not that they will want to have that

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number so they can go back to their

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natural path and then the naturopath

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might go oh yes of course it's a little

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bit up so you've got yeah you're you're

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stressed or it's a little bit low and of

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course you've got adrenal fatigue

271
00:10:12,940 --> 00:10:10,220
because you've got really low levels so

272
00:10:14,050 --> 00:10:12,950
it's yeah look you've got along cure

273
00:10:15,460 --> 00:10:14,060
people who want to see you here and

274
00:10:17,980 --> 00:10:15,470
that's get some free medical advice but

275
00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:17,990
if if dr. Brad could magically knock out

276
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:20,870
one non evidence-based modality what

277
00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:22,130
would it be what would be the one you go

278
00:10:26,949 --> 00:10:23,630
that's it it's gone from this planet

279
00:10:29,889 --> 00:10:26,959
what would the one be only one only 11

280
00:10:32,380 --> 00:10:29,899
only 11 non evidence-based it's out of

281
00:10:34,090 --> 00:10:32,390
there know what look cupping is my most

282
00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:34,100
hated thing it's something that freaks

283
00:10:37,540 --> 00:10:36,050
me out and even as a GP I'm used to

284
00:10:38,910 --> 00:10:37,550
seeing a lot of those things but it

285
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:38,920
still gets a little bit of anxiety

286
00:10:43,389 --> 00:10:41,600
whenever I see anybody with cupping so I

287
00:10:45,850 --> 00:10:43,399
think just for purely selfish reasons

288
00:10:47,199 --> 00:10:45,860
then copy would be it and look if you

289
00:10:48,759 --> 00:10:47,209
got a website or something where you got

290
00:10:50,170 --> 00:10:48,769
this kind of information or was anywhere

291
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:50,180
you'd like to point us to on the web

292
00:10:56,230 --> 00:10:53,360
yeah you can find me on twitter @dr Brad

293
00:11:05,350 --> 00:10:56,240
Makai and I'm on facebook as well and

294
00:11:06,639 --> 00:11:05,360
I've got my website which is www it was

295
00:11:08,730 --> 00:11:06,649
great I'm glad that you're very

296
00:11:15,730 --> 00:11:08,740
illuminated and you use the word pus and

297
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:15,740
you use the word Diggy it's and as we

298
00:11:19,420 --> 00:11:18,079
all know pharmacists almost completely

299
00:11:21,699 --> 00:11:19,430
no use unless you've got a blank

300
00:11:23,860 --> 00:11:21,709
prescription pad really has anyone that

301
00:11:25,030 --> 00:11:23,870
blank prescription pad know so I mean

302
00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:25,040
initially I'm not interested in talking

303
00:11:28,269 --> 00:11:26,570
to you but we've got to ask some stuff

304
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:28,279
about what you thought about dr. Brad up

305
00:11:33,069 --> 00:11:29,690
there what did you think of him and he's

306
00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:33,079
non evidence-based modality poopoo well

307
00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:36,890
this is my first skeptics meeting a lot

308
00:11:41,079 --> 00:11:39,500
of beads here hey a lot of beer yeah

309
00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:41,089
there's lots of beer but that's that's a

310
00:11:48,199 --> 00:11:44,279
good speed Oh beard um

311
00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:48,209
okay before you're funny anyway what I

312
00:11:51,619 --> 00:11:49,800
was going to say is that he gave a

313
00:11:55,009 --> 00:11:51,629
really good talk a lot of the stuff that

314
00:11:57,290 --> 00:11:55,019
he had seen in his GP practice like a

315
00:11:58,670 --> 00:11:57,300
pharmacist we've seen as well possibly

316
00:12:00,079 --> 00:11:58,680
we were put more on the spot because

317
00:12:02,239 --> 00:12:00,089
you're right there and the drugs are

318
00:12:04,129 --> 00:12:02,249
there and it's like all right so my you

319
00:12:05,989 --> 00:12:04,139
know my physio said this or my doctor

320
00:12:07,790 --> 00:12:05,999
said this what are you gonna say but you

321
00:12:09,049 --> 00:12:07,800
know what are you gonna get up someone

322
00:12:11,900 --> 00:12:09,059
land in the pharmacy and said how's

323
00:12:13,249 --> 00:12:11,910
thyroxine made that's a pretty wild

324
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:13,259
question to come out of the blue isn't

325
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:15,660
it not so wild because through our

326
00:12:20,030 --> 00:12:18,240
degrees we do to some extent learn about

327
00:12:22,759 --> 00:12:20,040
how drugs are manufactured especially

328
00:12:23,900 --> 00:12:22,769
drugs that are like sort of hormone in

329
00:12:25,910 --> 00:12:23,910
nature we do know where they're

330
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,920
extracted from and that sort of thing

331
00:12:30,470 --> 00:12:28,079
when someone asks that you know it's a

332
00:12:32,509 --> 00:12:30,480
loaded question when they're sort of

333
00:12:34,790 --> 00:12:32,519
asking for the natural equivalence is

334
00:12:37,489 --> 00:12:34,800
not always the easiest thing to do

335
00:12:40,759 --> 00:12:37,499
definitely not so it likely says loaded

336
00:12:42,110 --> 00:12:40,769
question I did ask dr. Brad this and you

337
00:12:45,049 --> 00:12:42,120
probably got an answer to this if there

338
00:12:46,579 --> 00:12:45,059
was one non evidence-based modality that

339
00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:46,589
you could get rid of ban it from the

340
00:12:50,329 --> 00:12:47,850
planet what would be the one that you

341
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:50,339
would get rid of well honestly because

342
00:12:53,749 --> 00:12:51,839
I've done a little bit of research in it

343
00:12:55,879 --> 00:12:53,759
a lot of girls take evening primrose oil

344
00:12:57,769 --> 00:12:55,889
for period pain but there's no evidence

345
00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:57,779
to back it up the only thing it actually

346
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:00,120
does have a little bit of evidence for

347
00:13:04,850 --> 00:13:02,610
is a little bit of skin like irritation

348
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:04,860
and a little bit of breast tenderness

349
00:13:10,460 --> 00:13:07,410
but in terms of period pain in general

350
00:13:12,590 --> 00:13:10,470
or pms symptoms it does nothing and a

351
00:13:15,799 --> 00:13:12,600
lot of girls I even have cousins abroad

352
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:15,809
who asked me to buy some for them from

353
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:17,370
Australia because you can't get it in

354
00:13:23,179 --> 00:13:19,920
certain parts of the world and I just

355
00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:23,189
think that's the load on evidence-based

356
00:13:27,059 --> 00:13:24,970
stuff

357
00:13:28,259 --> 00:13:27,069
and what are these side effects of

358
00:13:29,699 --> 00:13:28,269
taking a large amount of it is there

359
00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:29,709
anything like you get with st. John's

360
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:32,290
wort or that sort of thing it's not like

361
00:13:35,369 --> 00:13:33,850
those risky side effects like st. John's

362
00:13:37,980 --> 00:13:35,379
work because st. John's wort can cause

363
00:13:40,259 --> 00:13:37,990
actual clinical side effects such as

364
00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:40,269
serotonin syndrome which can be fatal

365
00:13:44,129 --> 00:13:42,610
with evening primrose oil I'm not going

366
00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:44,139
to say I know one hundred percent but

367
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:46,000
you would have to take a much larger

368
00:13:51,389 --> 00:13:48,370
quantity for it to have those kind of

369
00:13:54,090 --> 00:13:51,399
lethal or detrimental side effects but

370
00:13:55,710 --> 00:13:54,100
I'm always from the viewpoint that the

371
00:13:57,300 --> 00:13:55,720
less medicines you take even if they're

372
00:13:59,040 --> 00:13:57,310
evidence-based the better if you don't

373
00:14:01,710 --> 00:13:59,050
need it don't take it if it's not gonna

374
00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:01,720
work don't take it so why put something

375
00:14:06,329 --> 00:14:04,480
in your body for no reason thank you

376
00:14:08,129 --> 00:14:06,339
I've got your friend over here fellow

377
00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:08,139
colleague here a fellow pharmacist how

378
00:14:12,929 --> 00:14:09,430
many years have you been a pharmacist

379
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:12,939
for years almost yeah yeah a longer than

380
00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:14,920
you so and what did you make of dr.

381
00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:17,170
Brad's talk it was really interesting

382
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:19,540
it's interesting always to hear things

383
00:14:24,119 --> 00:14:21,850
from a medical perspective as opposed to

384
00:14:26,429 --> 00:14:24,129
a pharmacist perspective because we

385
00:14:29,309 --> 00:14:26,439
think a lot more about the drugs or as

386
00:14:30,660 --> 00:14:29,319
opposed to the Diagnostics because the

387
00:14:33,629 --> 00:14:30,670
medical field there they're all about

388
00:14:35,460 --> 00:14:33,639
Diagnostics were about the drugs and

389
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:35,470
when you have been in a pharmacy and

390
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:36,639
you've had people coming in with the

391
00:14:40,889 --> 00:14:38,410
loaded questions and basically the

392
00:14:42,990 --> 00:14:40,899
question they're asking really is I want

393
00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:43,000
to find some way to blame big farmer for

394
00:14:46,199 --> 00:14:44,500
what's going wrong with me or avoid

395
00:14:47,999 --> 00:14:46,209
taking medicine because I'm suspicious a

396
00:14:49,740 --> 00:14:48,009
big farmer how do you handle that in the

397
00:14:53,340 --> 00:14:49,750
very short interaction you've got with

398
00:14:55,290 --> 00:14:53,350
them being a long term skeptic since

399
00:14:56,579 --> 00:14:55,300
before I'd registered I probably have a

400
00:14:59,369 --> 00:14:56,589
little bit more experience in this

401
00:15:01,799 --> 00:14:59,379
personally I sort of asked them why have

402
00:15:03,869 --> 00:15:01,809
they come in wanting a quote-unquote

403
00:15:06,689 --> 00:15:03,879
natural therapy and thank you someone

404
00:15:08,340 --> 00:15:06,699
who used to be into work I completely

405
00:15:11,129 --> 00:15:08,350
understand it because your would come on

406
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:11,139
I reckon maybe astrology a touch of

407
00:15:16,460 --> 00:15:14,050
cupping it's a bit of spooning oh do you

408
00:15:19,319 --> 00:15:16,470
like a bit of spooning to this guy yeah

409
00:15:22,879 --> 00:15:19,329
yes I was definitely into when I was

410
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:22,889
like a kid I loved horoscopes

411
00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:26,160
and you know I really got into I'm a

412
00:15:30,109 --> 00:15:28,649
Capricorn like Paul McCartney all the

413
00:15:34,309 --> 00:15:30,119
weekend mad you can blackmail against

414
00:15:35,929 --> 00:15:34,319
Bob right here but you know having said

415
00:15:37,609 --> 00:15:35,939
that like I understand where people are

416
00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:37,619
coming from so generally speaking our

417
00:15:40,340 --> 00:15:38,910
last and look you know where are you

418
00:15:42,229 --> 00:15:40,350
coming from why you wanting this and

419
00:15:44,479 --> 00:15:42,239
understanding that medications are quite

420
00:15:46,579 --> 00:15:44,489
scary so trying to very quickly

421
00:15:48,439 --> 00:15:46,589
understand what it is about the

422
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:48,449
medication that they've been prescribed

423
00:15:54,530 --> 00:15:50,699
or the illness that they've been

424
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,540
diagnosed with that is scaring them or

425
00:15:58,129 --> 00:15:56,220
making them feel uncomfortable and

426
00:16:01,039 --> 00:15:58,139
trying to reconcile that very quickly so

427
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:01,049
with the depression being that dr. Brad

428
00:16:04,729 --> 00:16:02,970
put up I thought a lot of people come in

429
00:16:06,919 --> 00:16:04,739
that I want to be depressed it's a very

430
00:16:09,019 --> 00:16:06,929
it's got a lot of stigma behind it she's

431
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:09,029
done and look it's just a mismatch of

432
00:16:12,739 --> 00:16:11,040
it's an imbalance it's not your fault

433
00:16:14,659 --> 00:16:12,749
because a lot of people feel self blame

434
00:16:16,099 --> 00:16:14,669
for it you know and trying to rectify

435
00:16:18,199 --> 00:16:16,109
that time look you know you got to take

436
00:16:20,299 --> 00:16:18,209
a medication that can either work

437
00:16:21,499 --> 00:16:20,309
short-term or you can work like you know

438
00:16:22,699 --> 00:16:21,509
you need to be on a long term and

439
00:16:24,769 --> 00:16:22,709
there's nothing to be embarrassed about

440
00:16:26,299 --> 00:16:24,779
you know and telling them I've been

441
00:16:28,309 --> 00:16:26,309
through the same thing or my friends

442
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:28,319
been through the same thing or lots of

443
00:16:33,289 --> 00:16:30,360
patients are on it and normalizing the

444
00:16:35,359 --> 00:16:33,299
situation for them and normalizing

445
00:16:38,689 --> 00:16:35,369
taking medications which they genuinely

446
00:16:40,669 --> 00:16:38,699
need if they don't genuinely need it and

447
00:16:43,249 --> 00:16:40,679
they could be something where they could

448
00:16:45,769 --> 00:16:43,259
get a better response from a non

449
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:45,779
pharmacological therapies such as cbt or

450
00:16:50,359 --> 00:16:47,730
cognitive behavioral therapy or from

451
00:16:53,780 --> 00:16:50,369
visio exercise diet that sort of thing

452
00:16:56,119 --> 00:16:53,790
if you really want to do this let's give

453
00:16:58,189 --> 00:16:56,129
it a time frame let's tell our doctor

454
00:17:00,019 --> 00:16:58,199
that we're doing it and come back to me

455
00:17:02,239 --> 00:17:00,029
and if it's not working then we'll move

456
00:17:03,830 --> 00:17:02,249
forward onto the sort of quote-unquote

457
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:03,840
more hardcore stuff

458
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:06,000
when they come in like if they for

459
00:17:09,050 --> 00:17:07,050
breastfeeding and things like that and

460
00:17:10,820 --> 00:17:09,060
they want you know you know things to

461
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:10,830
supplement their breastfeeding I tell

462
00:17:13,940 --> 00:17:12,510
them look you know with her but I never

463
00:17:15,620 --> 00:17:13,950
know how much it is in there are we

464
00:17:17,690 --> 00:17:15,630
haven't done the tests we haven't we

465
00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:17,700
don't know what else is in there with

466
00:17:20,510 --> 00:17:19,020
you and me up with you explain to I

467
00:17:22,310 --> 00:17:20,520
asked them do you know what I homeopathy

468
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:22,320
is all its natural might well you know

469
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:23,520
i'ma hook me up at this night and I'm

470
00:17:26,810 --> 00:17:24,720
like you can look it up you can buy

471
00:17:28,550 --> 00:17:26,820
today it works for me because I get more

472
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:28,560
money for the store but I don't want you

473
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:32,250
to buy for x y&z so I sort of rather

474
00:17:35,540 --> 00:17:34,050
than telling them they're stupid or

475
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:35,550
whatever like you know being like I know

476
00:17:38,930 --> 00:17:36,600
I don't want to sell you that I don't

477
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:38,940
you know from my standpoint I'd rather

478
00:17:42,860 --> 00:17:40,770
you be safe and I wouldn't recommend it

479
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:42,870
to fix why is it why is it in the store

480
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:45,570
then well I don't own the store you know

481
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:47,730
unfortunately the government isn't

482
00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:49,080
paying us enough money and we're going

483
00:17:52,730 --> 00:17:50,400
to sell our souls and literally

484
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:52,740
prostitute ourselves so yeah that's

485
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:54,810
pretty much it and if you had tube and

486
00:17:58,790 --> 00:17:56,970
one on evidence-based modality from the

487
00:18:00,320 --> 00:17:58,800
play in face of this planet which one

488
00:18:02,750 --> 00:18:00,330
would it be for you which one would you

489
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:02,760
get rid of probably anything you

490
00:18:08,060 --> 00:18:05,010
probably homeopathy probably your

491
00:18:10,070 --> 00:18:08,070
homeopathy or kinesiology because they

492
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:10,080
they spurn a lot of you net

493
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:12,810
clinics well I'll get working on that

494
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:14,610
one straight away and look shout out

495
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:16,140
everyone out there who's ever bought

496
00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:17,910
anything on the black milk label will

497
00:18:22,310 --> 00:18:19,950
know that those pants you are wearing

498
00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:22,320
our fantastic black milk pants every

499
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:23,640
girl who knows what I'm talking your ear

500
00:18:28,250 --> 00:18:26,130
leggings hell yeah Legos repair for that

501
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:28,260
absolutely absolutely i'll put them on

502
00:18:31,460 --> 00:18:29,940
it their own knows it all the fashion

503
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:31,470
people listen to the skeptic zone and

504
00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:32,850
speaking of skeptics were going around

505
00:18:37,130 --> 00:18:35,070
here well we have to have Richard take a

506
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:37,140
photo of these pans and make them the

507
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:39,210
logo for this week's show so you can

508
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:40,380
make them background art couldn't you

509
00:18:44,399 --> 00:18:41,970
just like one section of the Magnum but

510
00:18:47,820 --> 00:18:44,409
up now

511
00:18:50,259 --> 00:18:47,830
no no no with with James Randi I'm

512
00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:50,269
retiring which means he's not only going

513
00:18:53,139 --> 00:18:51,470
to be a skeptic he's going to be selling

514
00:18:54,669 --> 00:18:53,149
crystals on the home shopping channel or

515
00:18:56,619 --> 00:18:54,679
something um oh yeah he's getting right

516
00:18:58,359 --> 00:18:56,629
out of skepticism what do you think do

517
00:19:00,249 --> 00:18:58,369
you think there needs to be someone a

518
00:19:02,289 --> 00:19:00,259
figure like that or do you think it can

519
00:19:05,979 --> 00:19:02,299
is more organic now we can do without

520
00:19:08,139 --> 00:19:05,989
that kind of figure I think and I don't

521
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:08,149
think we need Randy or somebody like him

522
00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:11,090
necessarily i think there's it what

523
00:19:16,239 --> 00:19:13,460
Randy did was he popularized certain

524
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:16,249
things he Randy is a performer and

525
00:19:19,989 --> 00:19:18,049
because of his popularity as a performer

526
00:19:22,299 --> 00:19:19,999
because of his showmanship his ability

527
00:19:24,219 --> 00:19:22,309
to speak to a large audience he's been

528
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:24,229
particularly useful to the skeptical

529
00:19:29,259 --> 00:19:26,570
movement I do not think that he's

530
00:19:33,310 --> 00:19:29,269
leadership necessarily all the jf in

531
00:19:34,509 --> 00:19:33,320
particular have been a groundbreaking

532
00:19:36,339 --> 00:19:34,519
you know like he was not the first

533
00:19:37,149 --> 00:19:36,349
organization he was not its I don't

534
00:19:39,460 --> 00:19:37,159
think it's an organization that

535
00:19:40,810 --> 00:19:39,470
necessarily leads from a skeptical

536
00:19:42,580 --> 00:19:40,820
perspective what it's done really well

537
00:19:46,109 --> 00:19:42,590
and he did a lot of it is because of

538
00:19:49,210 --> 00:19:46,119
Randy's book popularity and personal

539
00:19:52,029 --> 00:19:49,220
personal abilities he's been able to

540
00:19:55,210 --> 00:19:52,039
popularize skepticism I think nowadays

541
00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:55,220
it's needed a lot less for the very

542
00:19:58,810 --> 00:19:56,690
simple reason that it's a big movement

543
00:20:01,060 --> 00:19:58,820
nowadays communications a lot easier

544
00:20:03,099 --> 00:20:01,070
than it was in the 70s and they in the

545
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:03,109
80s when when Randy started working on

546
00:20:09,879 --> 00:20:06,710
this I think I don't think we need a

547
00:20:12,159 --> 00:20:09,889
leader leaders also have a leader like

548
00:20:13,810 --> 00:20:12,169
Randy there's also issues with with

549
00:20:17,349 --> 00:20:13,820
having somebody like that because for

550
00:20:18,789 --> 00:20:17,359
example they have frailties you know I'm

551
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:18,799
not talking about the physical frailties

552
00:20:22,029 --> 00:20:20,690
of you know Randy as an 86 year old man

553
00:20:24,099 --> 00:20:22,039
I'm talking about the fact that he

554
00:20:26,859 --> 00:20:24,109
sometimes gets it wrong there's all

555
00:20:29,019 --> 00:20:26,869
kinds of issues you know people can have

556
00:20:30,219 --> 00:20:29,029
a debate about Brandis morality in

557
00:20:32,109 --> 00:20:30,229
certain cities and doesn't matter

558
00:20:33,969 --> 00:20:32,119
whether we agree with them or not the

559
00:20:36,039 --> 00:20:33,979
thing is that the focus on one person

560
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:36,049
means that the skeptical movement is a

561
00:20:40,659 --> 00:20:38,330
movement is probably weekend so I think

562
00:20:43,239 --> 00:20:40,669
I don't

563
00:20:45,820 --> 00:20:43,249
need Randy and I think we need Randy I

564
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:45,830
think I look he's done an amazing job

565
00:20:51,279 --> 00:20:48,080
and I'm i feel fortunate to have met him

566
00:20:54,340 --> 00:20:51,289
many times and you know to spoken to him

567
00:21:06,639 --> 00:20:54,350
but I don't think the movement needs him

568
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:09,080
the skeptic zone is brought to you by

569
00:21:16,010 --> 00:21:12,570
dr. Bob's trivia quiz visit dr. Bob's

570
00:21:18,649 --> 00:21:16,020
quiz wordpress.com and see if you can

571
00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:18,659
match wits with dr. Bob and I'm joined

572
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:22,049
again by the well-traveled and well-read

573
00:21:26,539 --> 00:21:23,850
dr. Steve Roberts who's a long time

574
00:21:28,460 --> 00:21:26,549
skeptic here in Australia he's also the

575
00:21:31,010 --> 00:21:28,470
man behind dr. Bob's trivia quiz but

576
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:31,020
Steve you have a very long interest in

577
00:21:35,060 --> 00:21:33,390
skeptical matter specifically about UFOs

578
00:21:37,580 --> 00:21:35,070
among so yeah what are we going to say

579
00:21:39,769 --> 00:21:37,590
they're very long the bosses or

580
00:21:42,220 --> 00:21:39,779
something yeah yeah look I came into the

581
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:42,230
skeptics ooh UFO so when I was a kid I

582
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:45,090
thought something was going on with UFOs

583
00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:47,250
yes so did I I don't respect for books

584
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:49,140
which have been physically dindin to me

585
00:21:55,789 --> 00:21:52,770
at school yeah but kids in those days

586
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:55,799
the 1960s thought that some if something

587
00:21:59,630 --> 00:21:57,840
was in a book it was true Oh from my

588
00:22:02,570 --> 00:21:59,640
point of view akin to the 1970s when it

589
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:02,580
was on TV it was on TV reports and we

590
00:22:05,539 --> 00:22:03,840
thought it was true as well that's how

591
00:22:08,419 --> 00:22:05,549
what'll wage the thing goes easy as I

592
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:08,429
know I saw it on television um yeah and

593
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:10,890
unfortunately some of the UFO nuts got

594
00:22:15,639 --> 00:22:13,350
so rich from writing in books that they

595
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:15,649
actually were able to found their own

596
00:22:20,269 --> 00:22:18,090
publishing house yeah pick the phone

597
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:20,279
book says really bizarre books out there

598
00:22:25,639 --> 00:22:22,740
and um it wasn't till I actually began

599
00:22:28,070 --> 00:22:25,649
to with other people at uni and many

600
00:22:29,630 --> 00:22:28,080
other quite smile we began to actually

601
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:29,640
get hold of the evidence to try to

602
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:31,770
collate it and see if there's something

603
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:33,510
going on and they actually actually

604
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:35,370
wasn't much evidence that was the first

605
00:22:40,940 --> 00:22:38,210
thing yeah lots of stories and lots of

606
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:40,950
not the whole of British sightings for

607
00:22:46,190 --> 00:22:43,590
six years every sighting in bitten was

608
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:46,200
about a one centimeter pile of paper hmm

609
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:48,690
including all the unfussy ones yeah

610
00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:49,770
ninety percent of them are just very

611
00:22:55,159 --> 00:22:52,980
fuzzy and no hoax is in those days right

612
00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:55,169
um and some yeah look kind of

613
00:22:58,279 --> 00:22:56,700
interesting but there's always a lack of

614
00:23:00,289 --> 00:22:58,289
evidence when you come to those and

615
00:23:02,210 --> 00:23:00,299
you've wonder what did go on but then

616
00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:02,220
you've got to think what if alias did

617
00:23:06,230 --> 00:23:03,990
land in a corn field somewhere there'd

618
00:23:08,090 --> 00:23:06,240
be some footprints or well that's it

619
00:23:12,289 --> 00:23:08,100
it's radiation or somebody else we've

620
00:23:14,779 --> 00:23:12,299
seen it after all this time even well

621
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:14,789
they said v8 in Roswell all the aliens

622
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,130
crashed okay so there they can make

623
00:23:21,799 --> 00:23:18,960
mistakes yeah surely

624
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:21,809
a few more if all the UFO reports are

625
00:23:24,769 --> 00:23:23,370
real that a few more would have made

626
00:23:26,750 --> 00:23:24,779
mistakes that's a bit of a straw man i

627
00:23:28,669 --> 00:23:26,760
guess but there should be something well

628
00:23:30,529 --> 00:23:28,679
not only can the alias make mistakes and

629
00:23:33,169 --> 00:23:30,539
crashed the damn thing but the US gallon

630
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:33,179
can make mistakes and and failed to keep

631
00:23:37,730 --> 00:23:35,730
secrets under control i hear the van

632
00:23:40,130 --> 00:23:37,740
gate near the Watergate scandal the end

633
00:23:43,220 --> 00:23:40,140
contra scandal with ya Bill Clinton

634
00:23:45,139 --> 00:23:43,230
shenanigans here newest things it's hard

635
00:23:47,899 --> 00:23:45,149
to keep secret very hard to keep secret

636
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,909
surely that man what's his name Snowden

637
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:49,679
would have released her the naughty UFO

638
00:23:55,940 --> 00:23:53,520
files by now other be da minha against

639
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:55,950
whom is it secret you know i mean if if

640
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:57,840
your makers have a better tank now they

641
00:24:01,159 --> 00:23:58,799
need to keep that secret from the

642
00:24:03,769 --> 00:24:01,169
Russians yeah the Cold War but yeah this

643
00:24:05,299 --> 00:24:03,779
is a Flying Saucer lands like it doesn't

644
00:24:06,590 --> 00:24:05,309
have been on the whole of humanity you

645
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:06,600
know the people involved would think

646
00:24:11,539 --> 00:24:09,570
that why why are we keeping this away

647
00:24:13,490 --> 00:24:11,549
from mother like Findlay nations a year

648
00:24:15,710 --> 00:24:13,500
well you must be on their payroll that's

649
00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:15,720
like I'm sorry yeah I don't have to kill

650
00:24:19,610 --> 00:24:17,940
you well I was told I was told just two

651
00:24:22,370 --> 00:24:19,620
days ago on Twitter that I'm on the

652
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:22,380
payroll of them the big pharmaceutical

653
00:24:27,860 --> 00:24:25,110
companies yeah i went to the letter box

654
00:24:29,570 --> 00:24:27,870
today no check again no chit yeah i

655
00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:29,580
wished i wish they wish they would hurry

656
00:24:33,919 --> 00:24:31,620
up i wish my payments would have yeah so

657
00:24:36,740 --> 00:24:33,929
what's the state of the modern UFO seen

658
00:24:38,269 --> 00:24:36,750
is there one not really um it failed

659
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:38,279
with the introduction of mobile phones

660
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:40,140
especially mobile phones with cameras in

661
00:24:45,710 --> 00:24:42,210
them there was actually an advert for a

662
00:24:47,510 --> 00:24:45,720
mobile phone in 1993 when they first

663
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:47,520
came in although they were the size of a

664
00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:50,130
brick in those days there was an advert

665
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:52,830
by telstra showing a guy who's seen a

666
00:24:58,760 --> 00:24:56,100
UFO yeah the land one in front of him or

667
00:24:59,899 --> 00:24:58,770
the other said quick phone somebody and

668
00:25:01,340 --> 00:24:59,909
if you're not if you don't have a phone

669
00:25:03,860 --> 00:25:01,350
your pocket as you're out there in the

670
00:25:05,539 --> 00:25:03,870
field you can't phone in your body there

671
00:25:07,519 --> 00:25:05,549
are no such phone calls that came in and

672
00:25:09,529 --> 00:25:07,529
then of course weekend was a million

673
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:09,539
everybody has a camera now well not only

674
00:25:12,889 --> 00:25:10,919
that everybody well when we say

675
00:25:14,450 --> 00:25:12,899
everybody put many people have not only

676
00:25:16,850 --> 00:25:14,460
a camera about their person but a

677
00:25:18,919 --> 00:25:16,860
high-definition video camera oh yeah

678
00:25:20,930 --> 00:25:18,929
yeah I've got my phone has a high

679
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:20,940
definition video camera don't write in

680
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:22,770
those seems to have killed the UFO

681
00:25:27,139 --> 00:25:24,450
stories right off yeah you're absolutely

682
00:25:28,850 --> 00:25:27,149
right because if if they were buzzing

683
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:28,860
around with thousands upon thousands of

684
00:25:32,450 --> 00:25:30,510
people in Australia and millions across

685
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:32,460
the United States and other countries or

686
00:25:38,990 --> 00:25:35,250
caring at least a camera yeah we should

687
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:39,000
be overwhelmed with spaceship fear what

688
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:42,510
we get now is orbs mobs if you take your

689
00:25:47,540 --> 00:25:45,570
photograph in some dusty place with dust

690
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:47,550
motes in the air and the flash goes off

691
00:25:52,550 --> 00:25:50,010
and I thing is when you're behind the

692
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:52,560
camera looking through it you can't see

693
00:25:58,310 --> 00:25:56,220
the flash go off our people insist there

694
00:25:59,660 --> 00:25:58,320
was no flash Yeshe oh that you can tell

695
00:26:01,520 --> 00:25:59,670
from the JPEG file that there was a

696
00:26:04,190 --> 00:26:01,530
flash fired that's interesting and it

697
00:26:06,050 --> 00:26:04,200
picks up dust motes you know about two

698
00:26:09,170 --> 00:26:06,060
inches in front of the lens yeah come

699
00:26:11,330 --> 00:26:09,180
out fuzzy yeah and say focus all other

700
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:11,340
than really with a bit of sense if you

701
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:12,570
with other people you have to explain

702
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:15,600
well did anybody else see the orbs cuz

703
00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:17,430
they're actually can't see them because

704
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:20,310
the flashing at us of course yeah but

705
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:22,260
nobody else saw the orbs but the people

706
00:26:26,270 --> 00:26:23,970
think oh I've been visited by orbs on

707
00:26:28,970 --> 00:26:26,280
Faden a wonderful thing either have you

708
00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:28,980
know normally they're associated people

709
00:26:33,890 --> 00:26:30,800
think they're great spirits of some kind

710
00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:33,900
well yeah if it gives you a warm fuzzy

711
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:36,150
feeling that's that's very nice yeah we

712
00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:38,010
know what they are yeah look it's a

713
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:40,020
shame sometimes I've stopped debunking

714
00:26:44,270 --> 00:26:42,570
UFOs stories in the last days of the

715
00:26:46,250 --> 00:26:44,280
phenomenon because you're ruining

716
00:26:48,170 --> 00:26:46,260
people's self-esteem and I suppose

717
00:26:50,210 --> 00:26:48,180
avoiding people's funs longing and

718
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,220
Deadhorse a bit isn't it is as I said

719
00:26:53,630 --> 00:26:52,080
the evidence is sibling yeah which you

720
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:53,640
should be when people come to you and

721
00:26:57,770 --> 00:26:55,200
say I've seen a UFO which makes me very

722
00:27:00,020 --> 00:26:57,780
special and then you explain it that's

723
00:27:01,790 --> 00:27:00,030
the last thing they want ya feel the

724
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:01,800
Monty Python sketch of the ex leper you

725
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,710
know he explained my sighting no I was a

726
00:27:11,150 --> 00:27:06,960
UFO contactee now I'm just nobody oh

727
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:11,160
yeah oh yeah well we'll keep watching

728
00:27:15,830 --> 00:27:13,320
the skies in the meantime matter Steve

729
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:15,840
thanks again for dropping by and people

730
00:27:21,290 --> 00:27:18,840
can google dr. Bob's trivia quiz and

731
00:27:23,390 --> 00:27:21,300
take part in your quiz if their game

732
00:27:27,260 --> 00:27:23,400
enough yesterday there would be a doctor

733
00:27:30,530 --> 00:27:27,270
by UFOs first flies mmm and fold oh no

734
00:27:35,190 --> 00:27:33,270
welcome to weaken science from RI oz

735
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:35,200
bringing you the science you need

736
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:37,510
tonight trying to woo someone this

737
00:27:41,730 --> 00:27:39,490
valentine's day maybe you could take a

738
00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:41,740
leaf out of the animal kingdom and trust

739
00:27:49,110 --> 00:27:47,260
some of these romantic displays to

740
00:27:51,180 --> 00:27:49,120
attract a female the male of many

741
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:51,190
penguin species will build a nest out of

742
00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:53,860
pebbles before standing by it puffing up

743
00:27:58,410 --> 00:27:55,840
their chest lifting their head towards

744
00:28:01,080 --> 00:27:58,420
the sky and making honking sounds while

745
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:01,090
out stretching their wings this is not a

746
00:28:05,490 --> 00:28:03,310
good idea for humans do not stand

747
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:05,500
outside your house shouting at people it

748
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:09,130
won't work this one is a bit nasty

749
00:28:14,190 --> 00:28:11,770
before mating a male porcupine will

750
00:28:16,530 --> 00:28:14,200
drench the female in his own urine if

751
00:28:18,990 --> 00:28:16,540
she is ready for copulation she will not

752
00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:19,000
object to this display whereas any other

753
00:28:27,330 --> 00:28:21,370
response is a sure sign she's not ready

754
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:27,340
no do not do this let's try under the

755
00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:29,530
sea after all seahorses are quite the

756
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:32,230
romantics a typical male courtship

757
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:34,410
display can last up to eight hours

758
00:28:39,450 --> 00:28:36,970
seahorse couples also swim with their

759
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:39,460
tails intertwined almost like holding

760
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:42,190
hands when it comes to pregnancy the

761
00:28:47,070 --> 00:28:45,130
male takes on the female egg fertilizes

762
00:28:50,010 --> 00:28:47,080
it and nourishes it carrying the

763
00:28:52,260 --> 00:28:50,020
offspring for six weeks but sorry ladies

764
00:28:55,860 --> 00:28:52,270
human males can't get pregnant so this

765
00:28:58,440 --> 00:28:55,870
one is also off the cards the females of

766
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:58,450
the very deep sea angler fish are much

767
00:29:02,550 --> 00:28:59,880
larger than their male counterparts

768
00:29:05,310 --> 00:29:02,560
would you think might be awkward when it

769
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:05,320
comes to mating the male instead finds a

770
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:07,690
female and permanently attaches his

771
00:29:13,020 --> 00:29:10,330
mouth to her taking on nutrients through

772
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:13,030
the female's body ok so maybe none of

773
00:29:16,890 --> 00:29:14,770
these are particularly good courtship

774
00:29:19,590 --> 00:29:16,900
tips for the human world but here are

775
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:19,600
four more fast facts about romance in

776
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:24,370
the animal kingdom the male bowerbird

777
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:26,200
creates a display of brightly colored

778
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:28,810
objects which is then judged by a female

779
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:31,810
good interior design skills leads to a

780
00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:34,930
mate Adelaide Zoo orangutang scarcer and

781
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:37,390
clawed visibly grieved the loss of an

782
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:39,760
infant with male clue it's providing

783
00:29:43,529 --> 00:29:42,820
support and comfort to Carter like many

784
00:29:45,570 --> 00:29:43,539
birds the

785
00:29:47,969 --> 00:29:45,580
waved albatross performs an elaborate

786
00:29:50,849 --> 00:29:47,979
courtship dance however there's is

787
00:29:52,590 --> 00:29:50,859
performed with their partner but the

788
00:29:54,989 --> 00:29:52,600
strawberry dart frog has a very

789
00:29:57,210 --> 00:29:54,999
different system for choosing a mate the

790
00:29:59,969 --> 00:29:57,220
female just takes whichever male is

791
00:30:02,039 --> 00:29:59,979
closest that's it for this week in

792
00:30:04,109 --> 00:30:02,049
science for more information on

793
00:30:09,659 --> 00:30:04,119
courtship in the animal world goes the

794
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:09,669
RLS website RI aus org dot a you follow

795
00:30:14,639 --> 00:30:12,340
us on twitter @ ra oz and like us on

796
00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:14,649
facebook i'm ben lewis and we'll catch

797
00:30:37,229 --> 00:30:35,049
you next week having a baby is a very

798
00:30:39,749 --> 00:30:37,239
special experience for any young parent

799
00:30:42,210 --> 00:30:39,759
but imagine what it would be like to

800
00:30:44,909 --> 00:30:42,220
live with the fear that at any time that

801
00:30:48,299 --> 00:30:44,919
baby could become seriously ill and even

802
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:48,309
die from preventable disease this was

803
00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:49,840
the everyday reality for our

804
00:30:54,779 --> 00:30:51,700
grandparents and the countless

805
00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:54,789
generations before them the vaccination

806
00:30:59,279 --> 00:30:56,830
chronicles is a documentary film by

807
00:31:02,190 --> 00:30:59,289
Richard Saunders with stories from real

808
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:02,200
people who know firsthand what it's like

809
00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:03,970
to see family members suffer from

810
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:08,049
diseases we hardly hear about today it's

811
00:31:12,239 --> 00:31:10,330
a powerful message for today's parents

812
00:31:15,180 --> 00:31:12,249
wondering about vaccinating their own

813
00:31:17,729 --> 00:31:15,190
children the documentary is free to view

814
00:31:20,999 --> 00:31:17,739
and show in public without seeking

815
00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:21,009
permission just google the vaccination

816
00:31:27,109 --> 00:31:24,580
chronicles for the youtube link you can

817
00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:27,119
also order the DVD of the documentary

818
00:31:32,639 --> 00:31:29,710
autographed by Richard Saunders for only

819
00:31:35,639 --> 00:31:32,649
twelve dollars this covers production

820
00:31:38,999 --> 00:31:35,649
and postage to anywhere in the world the

821
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:39,009
DVD includes extra interviews archival

822
00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:41,049
newspaper reports and other features

823
00:31:47,370 --> 00:31:44,740
from the 1940s and 1950s

824
00:31:53,450 --> 00:31:47,380
the artwork for the DVD in the cover are

825
00:31:58,500 --> 00:31:53,460
included on the DVD itself just visit w

826
00:32:01,049 --> 00:31:58,510
WX own TV to order your copy once you

827
00:32:03,540 --> 00:32:01,059
have the DVD it's your job to copy it

828
00:32:06,419 --> 00:32:03,550
and pass it along to as many people as

829
00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:06,429
you wish they in turn are encouraged to

830
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:09,340
do the same the vaccination chronicles a

831
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:27,620
what we want is some more evidence

832
00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:40,789
hello this is Joe alabaster

833
00:32:45,930 --> 00:32:43,560
in the wake of the current US measles

834
00:32:48,620 --> 00:32:45,940
outbreak which began at Disneyland in

835
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:48,630
California and the circle resulted in

836
00:32:55,230 --> 00:32:51,880
121 infections and thousands more people

837
00:32:56,909 --> 00:32:55,240
exposed across 17 states public and

838
00:32:59,010 --> 00:32:56,919
media attention has been directed

839
00:33:03,150 --> 00:32:59,020
towards the issues of vaccination and

840
00:33:05,039 --> 00:33:03,160
the anti-vaccination movement as we

841
00:33:07,049 --> 00:33:05,049
witness the very real effects of lowered

842
00:33:09,419 --> 00:33:07,059
herd immunity due to vaccine refusal

843
00:33:11,940 --> 00:33:09,429
vocal support for vaccines has been

844
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:11,950
prominent as has criticism of

845
00:33:17,789 --> 00:33:14,850
anti-vaccination misinformation in

846
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:17,799
particular public attention has again

847
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:20,080
been drawn to Melanie's marvelous

848
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:22,809
measles a picture book which attempts to

849
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,640
rear Shore children that it's a good

850
00:33:29,220 --> 00:33:26,880
thing to experience measles infection

851
00:33:33,060 --> 00:33:29,230
written by Australian vaccination

852
00:33:34,890 --> 00:33:33,070
opponents Stephanie messenger the blurb

853
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:34,900
on the back cover gives a good summary

854
00:33:41,220 --> 00:33:38,730
as to what the book is about quote

855
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:41,230
Melanie's marvelous measles was written

856
00:33:45,510 --> 00:33:43,330
to educate children on the benefits of

857
00:33:48,570 --> 00:33:45,520
having measles and how you can heal from

858
00:33:50,010 --> 00:33:48,580
the naturally and successfully often

859
00:33:52,740 --> 00:33:50,020
today we are being bombarded with

860
00:33:54,780 --> 00:33:52,750
messages from vested interests to fear

861
00:33:57,900 --> 00:33:54,790
all diseases in order for someone to

862
00:34:00,330 --> 00:33:57,910
sell some potion or vaccine when in fact

863
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:00,340
history shows that in industrialized

864
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:02,650
countries these diseases are quite

865
00:34:09,859 --> 00:34:05,410
benign and according to natural health

866
00:34:12,599 --> 00:34:09,869
sources beneficial to the body and quote

867
00:34:15,210 --> 00:34:12,609
you know this book is troubling on so

868
00:34:17,070 --> 00:34:15,220
many levels when I decided to cover it

869
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:17,080
my report this week I initially wondered

870
00:34:22,230 --> 00:34:18,730
whether I'd have to present you with 10

871
00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:22,240
minutes of stones violence the story

872
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:24,790
within follows Tina who arrives at her

873
00:34:28,649 --> 00:34:26,470
first day back at school after the

874
00:34:32,129 --> 00:34:28,659
winter holidays to find that her friend

875
00:34:34,710 --> 00:34:32,139
Melanie is absent their teacher heavily

876
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:34,720
pregnant advises the class that Melanie

877
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:37,570
is at home with measles some children

878
00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:39,010
are concerned and worried about catching

879
00:34:46,139 --> 00:34:43,540
measles quote Tina heard Jared tell

880
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:46,149
Travis the boy beside him that he

881
00:34:51,450 --> 00:34:48,310
wouldn't get the measles because he had

882
00:34:53,450 --> 00:34:51,460
been vaccinated Travis said that he

883
00:34:55,909 --> 00:34:53,460
wasn't vaccinated but didn't

884
00:34:57,980 --> 00:34:55,919
and until Jared then told him angrily

885
00:35:01,070 --> 00:34:57,990
well you're going to die if you don't

886
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:01,080
get vaccinated Travis thought about this

887
00:35:05,990 --> 00:35:04,050
for a minute and said to Jared well I

888
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:06,000
know that isn't true because I haven't

889
00:35:10,849 --> 00:35:08,130
had any vaccinations and I am still

890
00:35:15,620 --> 00:35:10,859
alive Jared didn't know what to say to

891
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:15,630
that end quote how much would Jared he's

892
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,390
a kid a fictional one at that however

893
00:35:23,599 --> 00:35:20,880
adults adults who write books for

894
00:35:25,940 --> 00:35:23,609
children certainly should know better of

895
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:25,950
course kids who aren't vaccinated aren't

896
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:29,010
necessarily going to die the nuances of

897
00:35:34,070 --> 00:35:31,490
risk are utterly lacking in this book

898
00:35:35,780 --> 00:35:34,080
it's also a little heavy-handed in

899
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:35,790
portraying a vaccinated kid in a

900
00:35:41,780 --> 00:35:39,570
negative manner more on this later Tina

901
00:35:44,450 --> 00:35:41,790
returns home after school and chats with

902
00:35:47,690 --> 00:35:44,460
her mother about Melanie measles and the

903
00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:47,700
other children's reactions Tina's mother

904
00:35:51,859 --> 00:35:50,040
who is not vaccinated Tina after

905
00:35:54,099 --> 00:35:51,869
attributed an illness tenes older

906
00:35:56,630 --> 00:35:54,109
brother experienced to his vaccinations

907
00:36:00,320 --> 00:35:56,640
reassures Tina that the measles don't

908
00:36:02,390 --> 00:36:00,330
hurt she tells Tina that children get

909
00:36:04,670 --> 00:36:02,400
spots on their body and can feel very

910
00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:04,680
hot for a day or so and that for most

911
00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:06,270
children it's a good thing to get

912
00:36:11,089 --> 00:36:08,760
measles as many wise people believe

913
00:36:15,050 --> 00:36:11,099
measles makes the body stronger and more

914
00:36:16,579 --> 00:36:15,060
mature for the future Tina then asks her

915
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:16,589
mother why the other children were

916
00:36:23,240 --> 00:36:21,330
scared her mother appliers quote they

917
00:36:25,910 --> 00:36:23,250
are scared because they don't know much

918
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:25,920
about measles and most people fear

919
00:36:31,099 --> 00:36:28,130
things they don't know anything about

920
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:31,109
it's a bit like being scared of the dark

921
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:36,780
and quote Tina's mother then tells her

922
00:36:42,349 --> 00:36:39,270
about pox parties and natural lifelong

923
00:36:44,720 --> 00:36:42,359
immunity oh this is always puzzled me

924
00:36:47,510 --> 00:36:44,730
greatly if measles and chicken pox are

925
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:47,520
absolutely fine to experience one an

926
00:36:52,010 --> 00:36:49,410
earth to some anti-vaccination is

927
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:52,020
declare immunity gained by experiencing

928
00:36:59,810 --> 00:36:54,810
an illness to be a good thing it's

929
00:37:01,220 --> 00:36:59,820
bizarre the story continues Tina asked

930
00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:01,230
her mother if she can go and visit

931
00:37:06,230 --> 00:37:03,510
Melanie in the hopes of catching her

932
00:37:07,340 --> 00:37:06,240
measles her mother feels that this is a

933
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:07,350
great idea

934
00:37:13,580 --> 00:37:10,050
suggests bring carrot juice and melon to

935
00:37:17,660 --> 00:37:13,590
help Melanie recover yep they're having

936
00:37:19,700 --> 00:37:17,670
a pox party for two Melanie greets Tina

937
00:37:22,100 --> 00:37:19,710
at the door and proudly shows off her

938
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:22,110
spots reassuring Tina that they don't

939
00:37:26,990 --> 00:37:25,290
itch or hurt at all Melanie's mother is

940
00:37:29,450 --> 00:37:27,000
nonplussed at the advocacy of the

941
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:29,460
measles vaccine Melanie recette that

942
00:37:36,220 --> 00:37:32,010
mentions that melanie has the worst case

943
00:37:39,590 --> 00:37:36,230
of measles that doctor had seen in years

944
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:39,600
Melanie's family doctor must be rather

945
00:37:44,810 --> 00:37:42,450
limited in his experience if an active

946
00:37:47,710 --> 00:37:44,820
and happy child with a rash is the worst

947
00:37:50,660 --> 00:37:47,720
case of measles he's seen in years

948
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:50,670
common meisel symptoms include fever

949
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:53,730
malaise runny nose dry cough

950
00:37:58,310 --> 00:37:56,090
conjunctivitis and rash and

951
00:38:00,380 --> 00:37:58,320
complications can include middle ear

952
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:00,390
inflammation diarrhea and vomiting

953
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:02,960
respiratory infections pneumonia

954
00:38:06,770 --> 00:38:05,130
miscarriage and premature labor and

955
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:06,780
pregnant women such as tenor or

956
00:38:11,660 --> 00:38:09,510
Melanie's teacher encephalitis which

957
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:11,670
occurs in round one in a thousand cases

958
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:14,010
ten to fifteen percent of people with

959
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:17,040
encephalitis died while 15 to 40 percent

960
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:19,350
end up with degrees of permanent brain

961
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:22,230
damage there's one complication of

962
00:38:25,730 --> 00:38:24,000
measles that Melanie's family doctor

963
00:38:29,180 --> 00:38:25,740
wouldn't have been able to spot there

964
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:29,190
subacute sclerosing panencephalitis or

965
00:38:35,270 --> 00:38:33,090
sspe it's rare affecting around one in a

966
00:38:39,140 --> 00:38:35,280
hundred thousand cases of measles but

967
00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:39,150
nasty sspa is progressive inflammation

968
00:38:44,650 --> 00:38:41,310
of the brain that causes loss of

969
00:38:48,170 --> 00:38:44,660
personality and intellectual disability

970
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:48,180
sspe usually begins around seven years

971
00:38:54,110 --> 00:38:52,530
after measles infection it's hard to

972
00:38:56,420 --> 00:38:54,120
fathom how anybody could be aware of

973
00:38:58,490 --> 00:38:56,430
this fact and still classify measles as

974
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:58,500
a benign short-lived children's illness

975
00:39:05,450 --> 00:39:01,200
and want to actively seek out exposure

976
00:39:08,420 --> 00:39:05,460
to back to the book Tina's mother talks

977
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:08,430
about the ability of plenty of vitamin A

978
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:11,160
to prevent measles and assist recovery

979
00:39:17,990 --> 00:39:13,920
from measles the girls play with dolls

980
00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:18,000
hug and display wonderful manners a week

981
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:20,310
later melanie is back at school with

982
00:39:25,850 --> 00:39:23,700
rash Tina and her mother are incredibly

983
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:25,860
disappointed that Tina hasn't contracted

984
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:28,770
measles Tina's mother attributes this to

985
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:30,930
tanners immune system being in good

986
00:39:34,970 --> 00:39:33,210
condition because she eats lots of raw

987
00:39:38,690 --> 00:39:34,980
fresh food drinks plenty of water and

988
00:39:40,490 --> 00:39:38,700
plays outside as much as it's feeling

989
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:40,500
like shooting fish in a barrel to point

990
00:39:44,660 --> 00:39:43,440
out the inaccuracies in this book I find

991
00:39:46,610 --> 00:39:44,670
the done playing of how highly

992
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:46,620
infectious measles is to be one of the

993
00:39:51,710 --> 00:39:48,570
most troubling elements in Melanie's

994
00:39:54,020 --> 00:39:51,720
marvelous measles measles is airborne

995
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:54,030
and lives a long time outside the human

996
00:39:58,820 --> 00:39:56,730
body a person can become infected with

997
00:40:01,690 --> 00:39:58,830
measles by entering a room that somebody

998
00:40:04,460 --> 00:40:01,700
carrying it has been in two hours prior

999
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:04,470
it's estimated that nine and ten people

1000
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:06,330
without immunity who have contact with

1001
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,130
somebody who's carrying measles will

1002
00:40:12,910 --> 00:40:10,800
contract it measles symptoms usually

1003
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:12,920
occur ten to twelve days after infection

1004
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:15,330
all of this means that measles can

1005
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:17,490
spread like wildfire particularly in

1006
00:40:23,780 --> 00:40:21,570
areas of low herd immunity the book ends

1007
00:40:27,620 --> 00:40:23,790
with the news that Jared our vaccinated

1008
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:27,630
straw man did get the measles Tina

1009
00:40:32,660 --> 00:40:30,090
attributes this to Jared eating so many

1010
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:32,670
sweets and chips and Santa Moni ously

1011
00:40:38,300 --> 00:40:35,640
wishes I hope that the measles make his

1012
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:38,310
body stronger and more mature and that

1013
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:40,290
he learns to eat more fresh foods so he

1014
00:40:45,830 --> 00:40:43,440
can take better care of his body the

1015
00:40:48,410 --> 00:40:45,840
accompanying image is of an annoyed

1016
00:40:51,980 --> 00:40:48,420
Jared lying in bed covered in spots with

1017
00:40:55,850 --> 00:40:51,990
a hamburger chips labeled msg enriched

1018
00:40:57,470 --> 00:40:55,860
GM fall I kid you not cheezles soda cup

1019
00:41:00,860 --> 00:40:57,480
cake and chocolate bar on his bedside

1020
00:41:03,290 --> 00:41:00,870
table the emphasis on nutrition is heavy

1021
00:41:05,450 --> 00:41:03,300
here as is the suggestion that good

1022
00:41:08,870 --> 00:41:05,460
foods can prevent disease as effectively

1023
00:41:10,730 --> 00:41:08,880
as we know vaccines can of course good

1024
00:41:12,650 --> 00:41:10,740
nutrition affects general health but as

1025
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:12,660
my friend Alison so eloquently put it

1026
00:41:19,700 --> 00:41:15,630
recently diseases don't care if you've

1027
00:41:21,650 --> 00:41:19,710
eaten kale or McDonald's the last page

1028
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:21,660
features Tina beaming up at her mother

1029
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:23,850
juice in hand fruit beside her and

1030
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:26,970
exclaiming maybe I'll be lucky enough to

1031
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:29,010
catch measles next time someone we know

1032
00:41:34,010 --> 00:41:32,730
has them there's a dedication in the

1033
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:34,020
front of the book which I'm think

1034
00:41:37,820 --> 00:41:35,760
King some of the books intended audience

1035
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:37,830
children from four to ten years old

1036
00:41:43,900 --> 00:41:39,210
would read if they are reading

1037
00:41:46,730 --> 00:41:43,910
independently it states quote dedication

1038
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:46,740
this book is dedicated to Jason my

1039
00:41:51,110 --> 00:41:49,650
firstborn son in his short life he

1040
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:51,120
taught me to be a more responsible

1041
00:41:55,700 --> 00:41:52,850
parent and with his death from

1042
00:42:00,770 --> 00:41:55,710
vaccinations came my life purpose end

1043
00:42:02,690 --> 00:42:00,780
quote it seems that Stephanie Messenger

1044
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:02,700
has experienced terrible grief in her

1045
00:42:08,330 --> 00:42:04,410
life which is letter on the path she

1046
00:42:10,490 --> 00:42:08,340
pursues however I question whether it's

1047
00:42:12,020 --> 00:42:10,500
responsible to associate infant death

1048
00:42:14,870 --> 00:42:12,030
with vaccination in a book for children

1049
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:14,880
at all but especially when the dangers

1050
00:42:19,820 --> 00:42:17,610
of measles are downplayed so greatly the

1051
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:19,830
risks of vaccination versus the diseases

1052
00:42:24,980 --> 00:42:22,950
that they prevent are utterly skewed if

1053
00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:24,990
I were a kid who trusted this book and

1054
00:42:29,420 --> 00:42:27,150
the adult who gave it to me I'd be

1055
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:29,430
terrified of vaccines and fairly blase

1056
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:32,010
about measles which is perhaps the aim

1057
00:42:37,580 --> 00:42:34,290
of this book but goodness I find it

1058
00:42:39,380 --> 00:42:37,590
troubling kids trust their caregivers to

1059
00:42:43,690 --> 00:42:39,390
provide them with accurate guidance in

1060
00:42:46,850 --> 00:42:43,700
life and this book does anything but

1061
00:42:49,130 --> 00:42:46,860
mainstream media outlets news websites

1062
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:49,140
and forums have been linking to Amazon's

1063
00:42:52,580 --> 00:42:51,210
listing of Melanie's marvelous measles

1064
00:42:57,380 --> 00:42:52,590
and the torrent of negative reviews

1065
00:42:58,760 --> 00:42:57,390
which Amazon users have been leaving now

1066
00:43:00,410 --> 00:42:58,770
I don't know how many of these people

1067
00:43:02,030 --> 00:43:00,420
who have reviewed the book have actually

1068
00:43:04,850 --> 00:43:02,040
read it or whether many are just

1069
00:43:07,310 --> 00:43:04,860
responding to it's very existence some

1070
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:07,320
of the reviews rather poignant among the

1071
00:43:11,390 --> 00:43:09,210
anger frustration mockery and black

1072
00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:11,400
humor there are some salient points

1073
00:43:17,990 --> 00:43:13,500
which I feel bear repeating such as this

1074
00:43:19,730 --> 00:43:18,000
review from C bisquick quote my infant

1075
00:43:21,830 --> 00:43:19,740
daughter went blind after contracting

1076
00:43:23,870 --> 00:43:21,840
measles from an unvaccinated child and

1077
00:43:25,490 --> 00:43:23,880
yet there's no Braille version of this

1078
00:43:27,530 --> 00:43:25,500
wonderful book for me to give her some

1079
00:43:32,140 --> 00:43:27,540
day to explain how awesome the disease

1080
00:43:35,770 --> 00:43:32,150
that took away her sight is end quote

1081
00:43:39,530 --> 00:43:35,780
also this from someone identified as ad

1082
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:39,540
quote wow I'll have to buy this for my

1083
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:42,510
dad here my uncle had polio as toddlers

1084
00:43:47,540 --> 00:43:43,890
and both were left with permanent

1085
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:47,550
disabilities now in their golden years

1086
00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:49,170
they get to suffer from post-polio

1087
00:43:54,980 --> 00:43:52,110
syndrome as an added bonus preventable

1088
00:44:00,560 --> 00:43:54,990
diseases truly are marvelous just ask my

1089
00:44:04,010 --> 00:44:00,570
dad and quote a five star review from MJ

1090
00:44:06,650 --> 00:44:04,020
willow quote I'm so glad this book is

1091
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:06,660
out here I was thinking the two weeks of

1092
00:44:10,130 --> 00:44:08,370
my childhood spent in a darkened room

1093
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:10,140
with blinding headaches and a burning

1094
00:44:15,410 --> 00:44:13,290
fever were not fun it was the early 60s

1095
00:44:17,420 --> 00:44:15,420
and the measles were all the rage but I

1096
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:17,430
was too young and ignorant to realize I

1097
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,130
was experiencing a miracle this book has

1098
00:44:24,530 --> 00:44:22,560
opened my eyes I had to read it through

1099
00:44:25,970 --> 00:44:24,540
some thick eyeglasses though they're

1100
00:44:27,890 --> 00:44:25,980
almost as fun to wear us the little

1101
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:27,900
plastic sunglasses I had to keep on when

1102
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:29,880
I watch TV with my viral power from

1103
00:44:34,070 --> 00:44:32,610
measles to this day the measles protect

1104
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:34,080
me from getting too much Sun as the

1105
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:37,010
sensitivity to light has never left me

1106
00:44:41,150 --> 00:44:39,450
just to be a part of history and to have

1107
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:41,160
lived under a quarantine that stretched

1108
00:44:44,810 --> 00:44:42,810
out to almost a month when my mother

1109
00:44:48,020 --> 00:44:44,820
took ill with my marvelous measles is an

1110
00:44:50,050 --> 00:44:48,030
honor I didn't recognize lucky for me

1111
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:50,060
though I had immunity to the disease

1112
00:44:54,350 --> 00:44:52,110
good thing my mother wasn't pregnant

1113
00:44:57,710 --> 00:44:54,360
then at least I don't think she was I

1114
00:44:59,360 --> 00:44:57,720
have no siblings I must apologize to my

1115
00:45:02,000 --> 00:44:59,370
children for withholding such a glorious

1116
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:02,010
experience from them vaccines were

1117
00:45:05,510 --> 00:45:03,690
available and free for the taking when

1118
00:45:07,850 --> 00:45:05,520
they were young I can't believe I fell

1119
00:45:09,250 --> 00:45:07,860
for that hopefully they will forgive me

1120
00:45:13,220 --> 00:45:09,260
for denying them this life-changing

1121
00:45:17,930 --> 00:45:13,230
experience end quote and finally this

1122
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:17,940
from user Tampa girl quote what a

1123
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:20,400
dirtbag moved to steal the title of

1124
00:45:25,490 --> 00:45:22,650
author Roald Dahl's book George's

1125
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:25,500
marvelous medicine Roald Dahl's daughter

1126
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:28,650
died of measles this so-called author is

1127
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:31,170
just a leech on society children and the

1128
00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:35,690
memory of dolls little girl end quote

1129
00:45:40,370 --> 00:45:38,250
indeed the title melanie's marvelous

1130
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:40,380
measles does bear resemblance to the

1131
00:45:45,590 --> 00:45:42,570
title of Roald Dahl's book George's

1132
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:45,600
marvelous medicine which leads me back

1133
00:45:51,050 --> 00:45:47,490
to the media coverage relating to the

1134
00:45:52,850 --> 00:45:51,060
current US measles outbreak circulating

1135
00:45:55,330 --> 00:45:52,860
widely at the moment is an open letter

1136
00:45:58,670 --> 00:45:55,340
which Roald Dahl wrote to parents in

1137
00:46:00,640 --> 00:45:58,680
1988 in which he urges them to vaccinate

1138
00:46:02,650 --> 00:46:00,650
their children and speaks about his

1139
00:46:07,450 --> 00:46:02,660
experience of losing his seven-year-old

1140
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:07,460
daughter Olivia to measles in 1962 it's

1141
00:46:11,349 --> 00:46:09,410
a heartbreaking but important read and

1142
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:11,359
has been republished on many websites

1143
00:46:16,210 --> 00:46:14,210
over the past few weeks I'll put a link

1144
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:16,220
in the show notes to its publication on

1145
00:46:20,410 --> 00:46:18,529
snopes which also includes Dolph

1146
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:20,420
harrowing recollection of his daughters

1147
00:46:24,819 --> 00:46:22,880
last day and his wife Patricia Neal's

1148
00:46:28,930 --> 00:46:24,829
perspective on losing Olivia and the

1149
00:46:31,390 --> 00:46:28,940
effect it had on Roald Dahl now so much

1150
00:46:33,099 --> 00:46:31,400
of this is sad that there's an outbreak

1151
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,109
of measles in a country where it was

1152
00:46:37,630 --> 00:46:35,599
considered eradicated that some parents

1153
00:46:39,609 --> 00:46:37,640
need convincing in order to vaccinate

1154
00:46:41,890 --> 00:46:39,619
their children and that dangerous

1155
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:41,900
anti-vaccination misinformation some

1156
00:46:47,230 --> 00:46:45,770
directed at children exists at all based

1157
00:46:49,029 --> 00:46:47,240
on what I've been observing over the

1158
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:49,039
past month and a half since the US

1159
00:46:52,990 --> 00:46:51,200
outbreak begun though more and more

1160
00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:53,000
members of the public is standing up for

1161
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:54,680
vaccination and criticizing

1162
00:46:59,740 --> 00:46:56,930
misinformation and the media are

1163
00:47:01,420 --> 00:46:59,750
acknowledging this sentiment while it's

1164
00:47:03,250 --> 00:47:01,430
lousy that it's taken an outbreak to

1165
00:47:05,289 --> 00:47:03,260
catalyze this wave of public support for

1166
00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:05,299
vaccination and the outbreak is

1167
00:47:09,670 --> 00:47:08,089
unfortunately far from over hopefully

1168
00:47:12,279 --> 00:47:09,680
the pre vaccination sentiment will

1169
00:47:14,049 --> 00:47:12,289
strengthen as a result and some parents

1170
00:47:16,180 --> 00:47:14,059
who are complacent or on the fence

1171
00:47:21,010 --> 00:47:16,190
regarding vaccinating their children may

1172
00:47:22,900 --> 00:47:21,020
reconsider their positions a transcript

1173
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:22,910
of this report will be available on my

1174
00:47:37,270 --> 00:47:25,130
website which can be found at evidence

1175
00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:40,100
the skeptic magazine the journal from

1176
00:47:45,470 --> 00:47:43,260
Australian skeptics subscribe online to

1177
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:45,480
the world's second oldest skeptical

1178
00:47:53,540 --> 00:47:50,790
magazine visit w WC APA mau and click

1179
00:47:57,500 --> 00:47:53,550
the publication's league you can also

1180
00:48:00,830 --> 00:47:57,510
find their over 30 years on back issues

1181
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:00,840
free to download the skeptic magazine

1182
00:48:23,940 --> 00:48:21,090
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1183
00:48:26,330 --> 00:48:23,950
iron coming up next week there's more

1184
00:48:28,410 --> 00:48:26,340
from Heidi Robertson the raw skeptic

1185
00:48:30,359 --> 00:48:28,420
Richard will be back in the captain's

1186
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:30,369
chair and he'll be interviewing ash

1187
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:32,890
price from the Edinburgh skeptics who's

1188
00:48:38,490 --> 00:48:34,930
taking is edinboro French show how to

1189
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:38,500
talk to the dead on the road comedy

1190
00:48:43,950 --> 00:48:41,020
magic and rational inquiry it sounds

1191
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:43,960
very much like my cup of tea for this

1192
00:48:53,640 --> 00:48:45,850
week this is joe alabaster signing off

1193
00:48:55,230 --> 00:48:53,650
from the Blue Mountains Australia you've

1194
00:48:59,010 --> 00:48:55,240
been listening to the skeptics own

1195
00:49:02,130 --> 00:48:59,020
podcast visit our website at wwc aiptek

1196
00:49:06,030 --> 00:49:02,140
zone TV for contacts an archive of all

1197
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:06,040
episodes since 2008 and our online store

1198
00:49:11,060 --> 00:49:08,350
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1199
00:49:14,070 --> 00:49:11,070
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1200
00:49:17,130 --> 00:49:14,080
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1201
00:49:19,980 --> 00:49:17,140
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1203
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1204
00:49:27,510 --> 00:49:25,810
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1205
00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:27,520
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1206
00:49:32,270 --> 00:49:29,590
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